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Capture Discs: Arsenal Expansion

beyblade

Also, Arsenal (or any of my mods for that matter) doesn't add a Zenith-tier yo-yo, so that must be from another mod. There's the bow (Omega), staff (Final Fractal), and whip (Summit), plus a Capture Disc (Vertexus) form this mod and shuriken (Ultima) from my Thrower mod's addon.

Summit was re-balanced in Arsenal's 1.5.1 update to be more reasonable, I'm not sure how it's still instantly shredding everything.
IIRC, last I tested Summit, its single-target DPS hit around 5K, which isn't that much more than Zenith's ~4K, especially considering summoner generally has the best DPS among the classes (Since it's defense is the worst). Also consider that Summit's reach is substantially less than Zenith's, since the latter can be thrown anywhere on-screen. Zenith is also much better at hitting tons of targets at once, since its attacks can sweep across huge areas (Summit still has a large arcing attack, but the player has to get closer than they do with Zenith).

@crutledge1289, balancing should indeed extend to endgame as it does. It's just that vanilla balancing ends up being 'everything is broken OP' (Which again, IMO, is bad). I follow that for consistency and nothing more.

...but fine, I'll make a toggle for Auric. People have been asking since Arsenal released. The only reason I haven't done it until now is frankly out of spite; IMO Calamity is overrated and its community is generally toxic (to be clear that doesn't include you; you've been very reasonable in your arguments). It's also - among other mods, like extreme QoL mods such as Fargo's - the antithesis to the vanilla+ style modding that I personally prefer.
In summary, my (biased) opinion is that it's easier for people to just practice self-restraint and not use Zenith-tier weapons until post-Yharon than it is for me to go in and enforce it with recipe changes. But since people keep asking I'll just do it since it's not technically complex to do.

In short, I'm asking for auric bars if calamity is installed and maybe some balancing with the zenith yoyo and zenith whip.

But could auric bar be added to their recipes if Calamity is in the modpack? You have done so with a mod or two. If it was added to your arsenal expansion. people that don't play calamity can get fun end game weapons after ML but people with Calamity have them locked like the orginal zenith better following progression? I'm not talking about how zenith is op, I was mentioning how two specific zenith counterparts from arsenal are even further off the chart than the zenith. The zenith yoyo plus yoyo bag is crazy and the zenith whip is like almost instant kill for no reason. I know you are focused on vanilla balancing. But end game is part of vanilla. A 10000000000000 atk sword after ML would be ridiculous. Balancing means end game as well. People don't want to one tap EVERYTHING after beating the final boss. Not saying your weapons do that but those two zenith weapons are out there.

I think Zenith (and some other post-game gear in vanilla) is so OP because, well, it's post-game for vanilla. Re-Logic has no obligation to worry about balancing implications on modded content; they have all the right in the world to make their game how they want to. Third-party content just has to deal with it how they choose. They aren't really worried about Zenith being so broken since by the time you get it you've already beaten the game. I guess the reasoning is along the lines of 'you've beat the game now, so you might as well have a little fun instead of struggling more'.

@crutledge1289, the other Zenith counterparts are stronger than Zenith because Melee is generally meant to have the lowest DPS among the classes, as it has the best defense. Even then, however, Zenith generally ends up being the best anyways because its crowd control and ability to fill the screen with its attacks is better than the others' (Except for Vertexus and Ultima).

Making weapons that are stronger than Zenith doesn't help the fact that its brokenly overpowered, yes, but it within the scope of vanilla(+) it doesn't really make the issue that much worse since Zenith's already so far gone in terms of its balancing. Like I said, Zenith is stupid OP and IMO Re-Logic should re-balance it (post-game gear in general could use a little re-balancing TBH), but for the time being I intend to (begrudgingly) follow suit as I'm dedicating to making (most of) my mods in the vanilla+ style and balanced around vanilla content.

If there was a 5000 damage weapon you could use anytime in terraria, it would break the feel of progression. But when the said weapon is locked or not there, people wouldn't worry about it. It would help a lot of you could add the calamity bars that are needed for calamity's zenith for your zenith weapons if calamity is installed. But I mean zenith yoyo higher dps then zenith, shoots projectiles, and doubles when using yoyo bag. The zenith whip simply seems to just shred anything. But I do agree when thinking about it, 4-5 weapons that are vanilla end game shouldn't really give someone the right to saw the whole mod is unbalanced but again, I only said it was your zenith counterparts that where unbalanced. Plus I play calamity so they are obtained really early.

Zenith is a bit op that is for sure, but it wouldn't be that hard to change recipes to make it not rely on arsenal expansion. You have done it before with other mods, giving armor and changing recipes for the post game mods of yours. The zenith whip and zenith yoyo are even higher in dps than the zenith itself so I don't know how that is balanced around zenith. Self-restraint isn't what's the problem, it's the fact that the weapon can be used anytime whenever I get to the stage of using it, it's that it is available.

@crutledge1289, firstly, this uses materials from Arsenal, so that's impossible.
Secondly, this was litterally designed to be an Addon for Arsenal, that would defeat the purpose IMO.
Thirdly, you know you could just practice self-restraint and just not use those weapons? I don't. I don't even use Zenith itself in vanilla.
Also, are those weapons your sole basis for suggesting Arsenal is unbalanced*? Zenith is OP in vanilla; my weapons only follow suit since they're counterparts. I honestly don't like the matter of fact myself, hence why I don't use said weapons in a typical playthrough.

*If not, please share; Arsenal is intended to be balanced around vanilla. From experience and as the sole dev of both, I can tell you Arsenal is genuinely much better balanced than the Capture Class.